If fandom is such a warm, fuzzy, safe place, why is anyone arguing about this?

[merricatk]

http://carose59.dreamwidth.org/150006.html

Comments

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[leviathan0999.livejournal.com]

Why is it whenever the subject of feedback is brought up, the consensus is that readers owe writers no consideration?

Because you're hanging out in the wrong forums, and believing what you're being told by people who, by virtue of telling you that, are, QED, not worth listening to.

And the next time you hear that crap, you are cordially invited to tell them that I, Jonathan Andrew Sheen, of 38 River Rd, Lot 3, Pepperell, Massachusetts, 01463-1623, reachable at (978)407-7403, called them a moronic, ungrateful troglodyte of the first water.

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[merricatk.livejournal.com]

You have my undying appreciation for that. And I'm hoping to post a little something soon that I think you'll like. *g*

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[nova-bright.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I got nothing. I don't understand this attitude at all.

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[merricatk.livejournal.com]

It's a mistake a lot of people make about fandom. They find a place where a significant percentage of the people understand their feelings about TV/movies, and they make friends with some people, and somehow that makes fandom a special place.

But that makes as much sense as me saying that because here at work we all do pretty much the same job, and I have some friends who have been wonderfully kind, my place of business is a warm and fuzzy place. There are a whole lot more people who don't care about me than do, a whole lot more than I can't trust than I can--

It's the world. Fandom is no different than the rest of the world. Get screwed over a few times and you'll understand it very well.

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[melodyclark.livejournal.com]

Writers receive absolutely no respect in fandom. As I said on my blog a couple of days ago, if you're a popular writer you'll end up receiving more grief than those who aren't read as much. I get attacked by these self-proclaimed fan critics who are allowed cheap shot attacks on my work but I'm NEVER to respond to their attacks. I just have to sit there and take it. They can post stupid reviews to my stories but I'm NEVER supposed to review their stupid reviews. Well, the person the other day who criticized my first-person Conan Doyle-esque story as "florid and overblown" because she was clueless that I was trying to write in a Victorian florid and overblown style was the last straw.
I work very damned hard on my stories, just as you do. Why are we supposed to let people snipe at us and not defend our work?

Part of this has to do with readers feeling disempowered by writers. You see it in the whole mindset against BNFs. If you're popular, you're a damned target. It's that easy.

I choose to do *some* warnings just to keep the brats from sniping at me. I really hate doing them, though. A lot of times, it gives away a plot you've very carefully woven into the story.

Fans are often spoiled brats. Another pet peeve of mine is the one I developed when I used to post my stories at public ff archives frequented by fan brats. I'd worked days on a story that I saw as finished, with no other portions to be added, and had worked hard to get it where I wanted it. I'd worked far harder on it than most of the other writers had on theirs. And yet the minute I'd post it, I'd receive feedback that simply said, "PLEASE UPDATE SOON!"

We really do need to get fanwriterrants going.

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[merricatk.livejournal.com]

Shall I cross-post my rant there? *g*

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[movies-michelle.livejournal.com]

Really, I don't get the warnings thing, and I say that as both a writer and a reader. Life doesn't come with warnings, people.

P.S.--You are not on fire. *g*

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[merricatk.livejournal.com]

Oh, good! I smelled smoke, and I was sure it was me. *g*

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[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'd have to say I agree with pretty much everything you said, especially the double standard of what writers "owe" readers and what readers do in return. I'm not paying any attention to any debates beyond what my friends write, so I have no stake in the matter, but I just wanted to give you a hearty pat on the back.

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[merricatk.livejournal.com]

Thank you, I really appreciate the moral support.

And I love your icon. *g*

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[leviathan0999.livejournal.com]

You know what writers owe readers? The very best story they can come up with. Period. Now, a write who feels like offering warnings certainly should. There's nothing wrong with it. A writer who feels like playing games with the conventions of warnings also should. (In a recent Nero Wolfe/Doctor Who crossover, when posting to a comm that required "warnings" I put "Warnings: Shrinkage." If a "Disclaimer" is required, I usually use a "claimer" claiming ownership of the fandom, the canon, the internet, and the reader.)

But all you owe your reader is your very best storytelling.

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[merricatk.livejournal.com]

I so agree with this! I'm a writer, and I'm serious about my writing. Just because my genre of choice is fan fiction doesn't mean it's not important to me. Strangers expecting me to neuter my stories for them is insulting, and it's something I'm not going to do.

And I love your warnings and disclaimers!

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[melodyclark.livejournal.com]

For many reasons, chiefly because you have one of my favorite all-times characters as your icon and also because you're amazingly sane (as are all merricatk's friends), I've friended you. Friend me back if you like. Either way is okay.

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[bumpkin-is.livejournal.com]

I agree with everything you said pretty much - I mean the only 'warnings' that a reader should get is the genre, rating, and the descript (think back of book teaser blurb) much like when they buy a novel, imho. Anything else and they might as well ask for the synopsis before they read to make sure they aren't going to be offended. :P

Oh, while on the topic of 'warnings', I think the best I ever saw was 'Law of Murphy - anything and everything could happen. Deal.' *g*

Marns
~pN

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[merricatk.livejournal.com]

Thank you! I like that warning. *g*

Maybe I should issue a standard "Abandon hope, all ye who enter here."

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[unovis.livejournal.com]

Yes. Thank you for saying all this. Especially for everything following "My trigger is being ignored." I couldn't agree more.

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[merricatk.livejournal.com]

Thank you! I've been arguing that one for years, but I find people would rather make excuses for not commenting than actually talk to the author.

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[gweneiriol.livejournal.com]

I don't mind warnings, mind you, but I don't expect them either. I go into a fic realizing I'm not going to know what happens till I get there and, if I read stuff that indicates bad stuff is gonna happen, I generally stop reading...well, except for that one WG fic of yours. I could tell it was going to shock me but it was too good for me to stop.

Actually, I haven't read the debate going on, mainly as it seems it's the same argument that's been going around for years and, as with all these types of debate, no one agrees, people treat each other badly, friendships are lost, and then it's forgotten till the next time it comes around. And, the sad thing, is that people are getting hurt and hurting each other for something that will never stop being debated.

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[merricatk.livejournal.com]

It is the same old argument, and I think the only reason I threw myself into it was that I needed some distraction from the stuff that's been happening lately. *g*

BTW, I did get both your emails, and responded to both of them, but I wasn't sure if you got mine.

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[wat-no.livejournal.com]

I don't warn for anything, except that you shouldn't drink anything while you're reading my stories

So it's important to warn when someone might spit liquid all over their computer, but not when someone might read something that will cause them to relive a trauma. Why? And don't tell me it's because you're not responsible for their mental state or whatever, because apparently you're responsible for any electronics or other personal belongings that might be ruined by the spray of liquid.

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[merricatk.livejournal.com]

Yes, that's the reason.

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[leviathan0999.livejournal.com]

She's responsible for writing the best stories she can put down on the page. Anything else is what she damned well feels like. No, she's not responsible for the fact that your mother was nibbled to death by a herd of purple zebras, so giving Frank McPike's son a stuffed purple zebra sends you into s suicidal fugue state. For that matter? If she really was nibbled to death by a herd of purple zebras, and reading that phrase twice in my comment response has sent you into a suicidal fuge state, I'm not responsible for that, either.

If your one true love died in the World Trade Center, that doesn't mean that all cities must warn for skyscrapers in case you might see them and be traumatized.

Life's tough. Deal with it.

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[melodyclark.livejournal.com]

Why is it necessary for you, an adult, to have somebody warn you about something you read? And before the trauma lists start being marched out, let me say I will win the Most Traumatized Award every time, I promise you. But I also take responsibility for the choices I make ... including reading.

You just want to control writers. You feel out of control yourself in other ways, so this is your way of asserting dominance. But it doesn't wash.

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[herpderpherpeez.livejournal.com]

Yeah, pretty much.

Has your bingo card filled up yet? Mine's getting close.

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[herpderpherpeez.livejournal.com]

Your LJ (http://gabrielleabelle.livejournal.com/112412.html) is not (http://queenofhell.livejournal.com/494862.html) your living room. (http://queenofhell.livejournal.com/452517.html)

Oh, and you have to be one of the whiniest, most self-righteous people I've seen in this whole wank. INTARNETZ, FEEL MAH PAYN AT HAVIN TO TAKE OTHER PEEPL INTO CONSIDERASHUN!! Do yourself a favor and STFU already. Every time you post or comment about this, the general perception of your IQ goes down another ten points.

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[merricatk.livejournal.com]

I had no idea there was a general perception of my IQ.

I want to thank you for showing up to prove my point. I appreciate it. With all due respect to the people whose LJs you linked to, I'd be very interested in hearing how their posts are relevant to my LJ.